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What tools do you guys think we need to jump start development of the Metanet? We have a few projects like MetaId and DNS but things are quite slow. A big hurdle is not being able to use Moneybutton to create metanet nodes. Are there other things we could build to make developers experience better?
unwriter tipped:
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Here's an idea: The standard way of doing a Metanet app would be to have the user create and fund transactions but there's no reason you couldn't do everything on the backend. You could have the benefits letting users who don't have any BSV use the service and fund their transactions and since all the transaction signing is in the backend the UI would be snappier. You could have users fund the larger transactions. A dead simple Nodejs library would be great. My hunch is that we would need both "read" and "write" to be very simple to get people excited like we had with Money Button and the early Planaria apis.
monbon tipped:
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1 year ago
We need some extremely easy to start lib or service. Lib preferably, so it can interact with whatever wallet. And planaria like documentation, which makes it plain obvious why you need it and how to start building in very simple way.
jonathanaird tipped:
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1 year ago
jonathanaird replied:
Yes, never underestimate the power of great documentation and boy are those some good docs!
Would love to hear thoughts on this, thanks@jonathanaird !
When we start tweeting about it, it’ll have momentum.
jonathanaird replied:
I think we need a simple prototype app that can show the benefits of the Metanet in a simple way like the Bottle browser did for onchain data.
monbon tipped:
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1 year ago
jonathanaird replied:
Something to get Twitter going.
There are many issues, a lot of which I wish i could talk about but not here today. But one thing I can say is wallets. I expected at least one wallet to get onboard but nobody did. So the only apps that use the protocol ended up being enterprise tools.
jonathanaird tipped:
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1 year ago
john replied:
get onboard what?
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1 year ago
Re the moneybutton hurdle, thats the precise reason I created https://www.paypresto.co. The idea being that you give your users a set of keys for creating nodes etc, but use any consumer wallet for funding the tx.
unwriter tipped:
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jonathanaird replied:
Yes, I was thinking about that, very cool service. What would be really nice is higher level metanet specific apis where I could just provide a root HD private key, what node I want to extend and the node content. Could actually be a separate package that uses paypresto for the backend.
libs replied:
I think once you have a root node and a path to derive, the actual deriving of child nodes is pretty straight forward. The fiddly bits are actually storing and recovering that master seed (in a secure way), and knowing what path to derive to.
john replied:
Why is meant by "node" wrt metanet? Only Nodes I'm familiar is Miner-Nodes (TAAL, Mempool, CG, etc...).
adonsats replied:
vertex
jonathanaird replied:
Yes it's not that bad but is definitely extra overhead for newer Bitcoin developers. Have you thought about a pure js version so you could use it with invisible moneybutton without the popup? Or even on the backend...
jonathanaird replied:
@john nodes are individual transactions that implement the Metanet protocol: https://nchain.com/app/uploads/2019/06/The-Metanet-Technical-Summary-v1.0.pdf
jeffchen replied:
First, let’s define MetaNet. Is it the protocol or the one that “ makes internet its side chain”? For the later, I am sure it shall include more than one protocols.
libs tipped:
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1 year ago
libs replied:
@jonathanaird yeah I do plan to enable a UI-less option, in which case you the developer are responsible for creating your own UI (or using invisible MB if you prefer).
jonathanaird tipped:
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1 year ago
unwriter replied:
@jeffchen It's always been the protocol name. Metanet is not the Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything. It's just a protocol, a powerful one. Those who say otherwise either have no idea what metanet protocol is, or terrible at marketing.
monbon tipped:
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1 year ago
unwriter replied:
99% of the people who say "Metanet will change the world" don't even know Metanet is actually a protocol with a clear spec. They think it's just some hype buzz word like VR, AR, Crypto, Blockchain, etc.
benjamin tipped:
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1 year ago
jeffchen replied:
You are correct. But sometimes even CoinGeek and nChain use MetaNet to refer the network build on BSV.
unwriter replied:
They should realize they're doing a huge disservice to both Metanet AND bitcoin by doing that.
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1 year ago
libs replied:
Out of interest@unwriter, if someone were to build a Bitcoin app that shared all the properties of what the Metanet protocol offers - putting data on chain, signing data with keys users own, creating rooted tree-like structures and relations of data, etc - but crucially did NOT use the Metanet protocol, would you say that is not a Metanet app?
unwriter replied:
I think it is really up to whoever releases that hypothetical protocol. You could package it as a completely different thing and call it something else, like Ubuntu was for Debian. Or you could create a temporary fork, expecting it to get "merged into" the original at some point, like io.js vs. node.js. But it's probably a good idea for many people to share the same protocol.
kapil replied:
The metanet protocol related transactions need to have the META tag so no way for hypothetical protocol to "merge back". I think one great use case for metanet toolkit will be some like like a metadb. In older times before rdbms/db2 existed an hierarchical database called IMS DB was used. I think with metanet we can build similar database and those were very good/fast in terms of search (using keys) and storing financial data of customers. If a off chain ledger like overpool supports this could be a game changer for financial enterprise to store their data locally while indexing it in the blockchain for records/auditability
kapil replied:
jonathanaird replied:
@libs funny you say that, I’ve been thinking about a Money Button compatible “simulated” metanet protocol that just uses a paymail signature in every transaction for validation. Something to explore the capabilities and do experiments.