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Stating for the record: I am no longer "scared of zero-sat-ouputs" (ZSOs) [or if you prefer: zero-sat-tokenization, ZST]. They've been unsettling me for a couple months due to ignorance of how the system will work when BitCoin goes "Back to the Future" of it's 0.1.1 implementation (plus hopefully some cool scaling added by the@nChain folks) Scared: https://powping.com/posts/fcb39507f3da5a1c7c1cf9f0984555f8c99b7f02e7507fbfc38c6cad6eed392f To be short about it, I've put my fingers in the wounds of BitCoin after it's reincarnation as #BSV, and very happy to say I've never been more confident in BitCoin's future than I am now. Would like to recently thank: @shadders , who explained that 0-sat dust-limit was original BitCoin and was going to stay that way.@attila who had the wherewithal to verify and not trust.@digitsu and@xhliu who interpreted technical jargon to help translate it to closer to "human understandable" so I could better grasp it. Everyone at Tokenizing companies who talked to me and explained how various tokens work; you know who you are.@craigwright , of course, who invented the incredibly elegant nuanced BitCoin ages ago and is probably tired of talking about the basics-- yet still does for all our benefit. I feel like I just wrote a book, but all I really did was complete some important personal research which allows me to continue betting my life on the power of BitCoin. But it FEELS like I just completed a book. > 1.5 years of intense studying of BitCoin with all my spare time, and finally in a really really great place. Again, thank you all, and looking forward to working with you in the future for mutually beneficial purposes! https://www.slictionary.com/testit/zen/60536401d2edf00575563d66fb56cea86aa29ba130e3b43004e2dfdaef347329
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Congrats on arriving at the important conclusion you set out to find a long time ago. You must feel incredibly satisfied and excited for what the future holds.
john replied:
Would give you a Planarian salute, but since none exists, 🖖🏼 settling for vulcan.
@john was this post before/after/concurrent your discussion w/@jack? I know they were posted relatively concurrently, but not sure when the Streamanity discussion was actually recorded. In the video discussion, you sounded (maybe I skipped around too much) a bit down on BSV "satoshi" valuation (i.e., possibly just the cost to replicate miner infrastructure). Appreciate the dialogue you helped facilitate on this forum. Would have liked to have heard more form Attila or DKra to force it out of the chamber just a bit...
benjamin replied:
Dialogue ref'd is here (for those tracking the various posts): https://powping.com/posts/fcb39507f3da5a1c7c1cf9f0984555f8c99b7f02e7507fbfc38c6cad6eed392f
john replied:
This post was last night, after digesting and disseminating a response from some higher-ups in BSV, with the interpretive aide of some other higher-ups, who (all) shed proper light on the topic. Ultimately CSW is the main source of clarity-- which should't be too surprising to anyone currently in the #BSV community. Just a guess, but would imagine he'll probably write more on ZSOs in the future. Discussion with@jack was more about framing the question and potential outcomes if one hypothesis or another is right or wrong. My view of the value of BSV can generally be found here: https://equitydiamonds.medium.com/what-is-bitcoin-903779fdc5c5 and some background (using gold) here: https://powping.com/posts/dfe00eef569ea778dbfd7d114936efa94f76c66045d19710a81c60b845b55caa I'll let jack speak for himself, but from our conversation I believe we have a different view on "money". My view is perhaps best outlined here: https://equitydiamonds.medium.com/why-many-smart-coders-dont-get-bitcoin-6c87239253d1 (original title "What is Money?") Also have some, perhaps, more digestible content here: https://streamanity.com/video/E0IXSKs2hrUK
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We have been discussing your previous thread in our group, as users trying to get a grip on zero-sat-outputs... good to read your conclusions and learn you're no longer afraid, nice... will also add a link to this message... for completeness, thank you@john
Hi John, thanks for sharing. Can you briefly say what was the aha point on this topic? Seems your initial concern was ability to 'print' more UTXOs, so this concern was incorrect?
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john replied:
Absolutely Liam! I guess the a-ha moment came from better understanding the incentives of Nodes for keeping or pruning ZSOs-- similar to the dynamic in OP_FALSE+RETURN. Thus, ZSOs most likely will not be used for the purposes which from my view give BSV its value/price. On the even MORE positive side, ZSOs may have great purpose for ephemeral purposes; such as, they could be used for computing-on-chain. Running computational functions, looping, inner-paymentChannel messaging, the things your CPU might do. See "EC2" circa the beginning of Amazon Web Services. By "ephemeral" I mean "use once & discard". Perhaps a first-try analogy would be the use of disposable utensils, which doesn't mean you throw away your silverware. In this analogy, silveware is "sat-ful" data transactions, and plasticware is ZSOs. For the purposes of what I think gives BSV coins their value (price per coin), I don't think ZSOs will do well. This means transactions involving >0 satoshis will be in demand in the future-- NOT just for monetary exchange, but as information (with value-adding cash-flows attached). www.SLictionary.com probably won't have use for ZSOs (not for a LONG time anyway!), but we will eventually use "sat-ful" UTXOs to store profitable definitions. It's a product we'll name "WordEnsure". WordEnsure will act like Lloyd's of London insurance for profitable definitions. If you had a definition (which took you < 5 minutes to create-- see our new and improved smithing-page which makes defining faster and clearer process... https://www.slictionary.com/createword/@/@/@ ) making money for you annually, that definition is a mini-business you'd want to protect. Maybe your picture is original art by you, as is the phraseology of your definition, and you want to protect that IP from others. You could push it into the blockchain using WordEnsure, and thus maintain your OWN copy of your creation. We will put this on a sat-ful token or coin, and for more reasons than one. There is an even BIGGER "a-ha moment" for what data-on-chain will mean for the "MetaNet" vs the current internet. Let's just say Google will not likely be the ultimate search engine during the 2nd half of your children's lifetime, and I don't just mean bc the time-costly, annoying advertising can be chucked in favor of microtransactions. (that we can all see). I mean it in a much more important way that maybe only@coingeek 's Charles Miller has defined (wink). More on this last topic later: future article, video ( https://streamanity.com/ditr@moneybutton.com ), or better yet www.SLictionary.com updates which let you really SEE the results of this vision.
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benjamin replied:
Just read this comment - I think that helps clarify your current thoughts and address the question I just posted a moment ago. Thanks!
Fear is the mind killer... Can't tell you how many times this has been true in my own Bitcoin learnng journey... When you stop being afraid of big data Bitcoin unlocks... WHAT! You want to keep MANY different versions of the UTXO DB? but but but... Disk space!
xhliu replied:
Fear is real, PTSD after years of abuse by small blockers. Even ppl in BSV r still scared of "big" script, really big ones like 1 Kilobyte!!